Thanks for the link to the interesting video.

I must say, I wasn’t sure if I was watching a serious video, or a production by the very talented people at The Onion.

Now, I’ll be the first to admit that I am no firearms expert. However, I’d be surprised if the chair the protagonist was using to take cover provided much protection from a bullet.

Also, the protagonist’s technique in disarming the assailant (1’45 – 1’50) was really appalling. It appeared to be an extremely sloppy and unsuccessful attempt to perform a technique that in Japanese (Aiki) Ju-Jutsu would be termed Nikajo/Nikyo Osae.

http://www.tabletmag.com/news-and-politics/15161/rabbi-rambo/

Anyway, my 2 cents:

Every communal organisation, such as a shul, school, social center etc, has the right to determine to whom they wish to grant entry and who they wish to remain outside. These buildings do not belong to every member of the community. The members and supporters pay the bills and set the agenda.

If the leadership of that particular premises has decided to enact security measures with the volunteered cooperation of the CSG, it is their right to do so. If you don’t like it, go somewhere else. Or build your own shul..

I have friends and relatives who devote a substantial amount of time and energy to the group, and are willing to put themselves on the frontline of any potential attack for the benefit of people inside they do not even know. They were asked to step up, and they do, time and again. And yes, some of them would even rather be at the beach.

The CSG has never claimed that it can prevent a car bomb from ripping through a shul, heaven forbid. But it can help foil the plan during the information gathering stage, which usually precedes an attack.

If anyone opposes the right of a given community to defend itself, well I guess you are either blind to the threats being proclaimed so often by those who would like to hurt us, or you simply don’t care much for the lives of your fellow Jews. In which case, go to hell…

DISCLAIMER: I am not, nor have even been in CSG. Or maybe I have? Wait 30 years, and I’ll disclose the truth…

Yes, I have do have a practical alternative: Do what was done before. The idea that the Jewish community needs some kind of secretive security organisation would have been foreign to many of us only a decade ago. Most shuls employed security guards, who worked with a couple of volunteers from the community, and could (and still can) rely on the cooperation of the police.

Despite what many feel (probably due to our upbringing in very loving but slightly insane holocaust survivor families), we do not live in pre-war Poland. We can count on the cooperation of the authorities, even if there has been a rise in antisemitic incidents (we still do live very happy and safe lives in Oz).

A bigger problem is that the CSG has become a wonderful means for macho, gym-going, utterly irreligious Jews to reinvent themselves as the warrior-guardians of our community. They do this by dictating – often offensively – who may enter Jewish communal events, when, how, etc. It is alienating and humiliating.

I am observant, and on various occasions have been stopped at the entrance of shuls outside the eruv in Sydney and questioned at length. I demonstrate my empty pockets, apologise that I can’t carry ID on Shabbos, and pepper my speech with such expressions as “daven”, “shachris”, “shul”, “eruv”. Not that the CSG people understand these terms, but to demonstrate that I am a Jew and would like to make it for barechu. It sometimes seems that the more convinced they are that I’m frum, the more they want to delay me, just to show me who’s boss (I even recall this being done once, outside the Sephardi synagogue in Sydney, by a guy giving me a big, toothy, cocky grin! The guy knew exactly what he was doing). This has happened several times. And I know of much worse stories: And elderly lady denied entrance to the shul that she frequents every week because she had no ID; a frum moroccan friend of mine denied entrance (he also had no ID, it was outside the eruv) because they thought he might be an Arab (!!!!!!!). It is truly disturbing.

CSG people would do better to engage positively with their Judaism, beyond the violence of krav magga and the sick romance of firearms and fancy little earpieces. For example: Instead of preventing people from entering shul, why not learn how to daven? Instead of feeling like a big tough warrior, why not make some friends and bloody relax? Do some meditation! Read a book! Go for a walk!

Anyway, in case you hadn’t worked it out: My experience of the CSG has been deeply negative, and I know many others who feel the same way. Off the top of my head, Jono David, for instance.

And I truly hope that all sentient beings attain liberation from suffering. Why not?

Only mazl and brukhes to all,

cyberjew.

I too am not comfortable as an Australian citizen thinking that I require my own private security. Unfortunately this is not just about how you or I feel;

Maybe the fact that at every major communal function I have attended there has been a strong police presence, both state and federal, shows that its not just the CSG that thinks that the security of these events (and by inference the wider community) shouldn’t be left in the hands of standard private security companies… As professional and profiecent as these companies seem to be at handling large public events.

Your attitude towards the CSG is condescending, would you like to put forward another idea/model that you would like the community to take on board? CST (that someone suggested earlier) has volunteers on the ground, so you will still be confronted by those “Maxwell Schmarts in their shabbos best”.

As for the research “We are Next!”, that you posted a link to earlier, thank you, it makes for very interesting reading.

What good is saying that it is logical to place guards outside shules on Yom Kippur and Shabbat, but then saying it is also okay for the interior of our shules to be displayed for all to see? This just raises the problem for a CSG guard standing out on shift during Yontef.

If I want to do the community physical harm and I have seen photos online and been able to pick where on mass the crowd will be, see the windows in the shule and where they face, seen the perfect place to plant whatever I want, my job is just that much easier.

So, this to me does not seem logical. And the wider community may be able to find out names and addresses from the net. All true.

However,

Regardless of your good intentions and what you are aiming to achieve or for what purpose (historical, cultural.etc) you have for taking photos of the interior and exterior of shules, you are still giving those who would do us harm yet another tool to be able to carry out that act of violence against the Jewish Community.

What good is it documenting when you are giving an enemy the tool to wipe out your installation and everyone in it?

Weigh up the pros and the cons…

I do not deny that what the photographer is trying to achieve is both noble and a mitzvah in itself, and as much as I like the idea, I can’t help but think that the risks outweigh the positives.

Furthermore, you asked how we let ourselves be controlled by the CSG mentality? We haven’t! The shules asked for the CSGs advice. That advice was given. The shules were free to follow it as they chose fit. They have chosen to deny this photographer his wish.

The CSG didn’t twist their arm. Didn’t throw their advice onto the shules without bein asked for it.

It is simple. The CSGs professionalism and commitment EARNED the trust of the shules and of the wider community, who were free to make decisions as they wished. You all speak as if the CSG forced the mentality onto the community it is trying to protect.

Your thoughts??

Frochel:
It is true that we would all be safest locked away in some bank vault on Shabbat. You’re right, if we did this however, it would be at a major loss of our culture and way of life. However, please understand that the CSG is not trying to impede on the Jewish Community’s way of life.
The CSG secures countless Community Torah Dedications, where hundreds of Jews march along public roads, singing, cheering and dancing. The CSG has not and does not recommend that events like this not go ahead. I would hardly say that the CSG is trying to box you in. Instead it is supporting the running of these kinds of events and making sure that you are allowed to enjoy your way of life safely!
Back to Almoni:
You call the CSG “wannabees with earpieces and walkie talkies” dressing in Shabbas best and expensive trench coats looking like “Maxwell Schmarts”. What do you propose instead? Some overweight gorilla dressed in rag tag clothing, leaning on a wall, smoking and drinking coke? I have an idea! Instead of “walkie talkies”, let’s have the CSG using paper cups with strings connecting them and relying on that method to let all of the other venues know about individuals and cars to be concerned about.
And let’s make sure that they’re all drunk from the night before, just to top it off. Remember, while you’re inside drinking hot tea on Shabbat, with not a care in the world for what is and isn’t going on outside, remember there are people outside who actually care, who will perform their duty regardless of rain, hail or shine to ensure that you and those you care about remain safe. I know that if you could, you would have it some other way. Thank g_d not everyone is like you or else we really would be in trouble.

I am concerned because the episode over the photographer that started it all off has not been resolved. In fact, CSG has not responded, unless I missed it in the AJN. The photographer issue is a classic case of wrong decision-making.

As CSG and its relationship to other agencies, I need to feel confident that all is above board.

That’s why I need openness and transparency about process. I don’t like the thought of such security responsibilities being delegated to private bodies without supervision and particularly, the right of appeal or complaint when something is done wrongly.

I also am not comfortable, as a citizen of Australia, thinking that I need to have my own private security at a place like Monash in addition to Monash security staff–they seem pretty professional to me and are used to all sorts of public events where supervision is required. It is a boundary I am not comfortable in crossing in a public university.

There are many examples of abuse of action by security companies in the supervision of public and private space, and there needs to be assurance that this is not the case here. I am not saying it has happened (except in one case now it seems), but that CSG should be able to demonstrate that all is above board.

By the way, the ASIO files I refer to are ones that are made available through the National Archives under the 30-year rule. http://www.naa.gov.au/about-us/publications/fact-sheets/fs52.aspx. No conspiracy here. Anyone can apply for them. Political spying is not a pleasant thing.

In regards to your statement that you would rather have Monash security personal looking after you. Who would you rather have standing there if you really had to think about it… Some one being paid $15 an hour or some one being paid $0 per hour but does the job out of a sense of duty, commitment and love for their community?

What makes you trust the training and commitment of a paid security guard more than you would trust that of a member of your own community?

While I do appreciate your calls for more transparency in the CSG, I also sense some bitterness towards them.

As you mentioned earlier you had access to some old ASIO files and there was information within that you are sure came from community insiders, why do you think the CSG would be gathering intelligence on members of their own community? I am sure that ASIO, being the national intelligence agency has many sources of information within the community, why point a finger at the CSG ? Also how did you come to access these ASIO files, are they not classified? Can any one access them?