Though I do think the issues your interviewees raised are a… point of contention for me, I ‘spose.

Anyway, If you ever have need to interview any opinionated grandchildren of Holocaust survivors (ahem), I can totally hook you up. And Shabbos dinner, too. Galus Australis would be delighted to have you. (Just email editorial@galusaustralis.com.)

30 years is a long time between chicken soups.

Interesting interpretation.

I read the article and to be honest I didn’t take Dapin’s conclusion as being directed at us (the third generation) at all. Rather, I understood it as a reflection of the feelings of those he interviewed. Indeed the entire article seemed (to me) to be solely concerned with the feelings & emotions of the second gen, irrespective of whether such feelings were rational, irrational or even misguided.

I don’t think it was a ‘search for the truth’ of whether in fact the third gen takes the sacrifices of their parents & grandparents for granted. Of course, many probably do, and an equal number of others probably don’t.

I am the grandson of Holocaust survivors, although my grandparents managed to evade concentration camps due to a mix of “fortune” and location. Even though they managed to escape, their immediate families (particularly the older members) were not so fortunate.

I never grew up with any guilt over anything to do with the Holocaust. My grandparents (at least on one side, with whom I happened to spend more time) decided long ago that they were in Australia to begin a new life and there was no point dwelling on the past tragedies, even though it was important to bear them in mind. My Jewish identity has always predominantly revolved around the positive aspects of Jewish history – mainly the miracle of the return of Jewish sovreignty to Israel – rather than the negative “guilt-ridden” experiences of the Holocaust. In fact, this focus on Israel is what originally made me decide that the only option was to believe in G-d and His Torah. (In addition to the fact that had it not have been for the Holocaust, my grandparents would never have met and I would likely not be here, c.f. Hasid’s reference to an “‘accidental’ birth”).

When it comes to going for drinks on Friday night, I have also never experienced the pressure because as frosh points out, I am halachically shomer Shabbos so the dilemma doesn’t occur to me. (It also helps that the people I work with in the city office tend to live far away and don’t want to hang around any longer than they have to).

I don’t understand the focus on guilt because of what our grandparents went through. We should be actively Jewish because the gift of being a Jew and the positives it entails should inspire us. Let’s not make the darkest point in modern Jewish history the focus of our connection to our heritage, because such an approach can never last.

Most survivors lost some or all of their immediate family.

Friday nights or Shabbos to many are not about religious values but rather the one time a week everyone sits down together for dinner for an extended time without distractions like TV.

Unfortunately the holocaust has turned into such a “guilt syndrome” rather than learning pertinent lessons. Non-Jews including young Germans seem a little tired of having to feel guilty about what happened to Jews 60 yrs ago.

This guilt phenomena is pervasive in Jewish culture (was it always?). But is it really a positive force at all? It makes people feel bad.. but does it change opinion or actions. Does it last?

Parenting has come a long way in the last 10-20 years and studies have really addressed what really works and what does not. e.g compliments really are only believable to children up to age 7 and punishment escalation actually makes kids into greater liars. I don’t think guilt really plays a part in successful parenting.

In our personal lives, guilt should be short but truthful and lead to a positive change and then move on to new positive experiences.

Don’t worry be happy.

Firstly, I haven’t read the original article you refer to.Nevertheless, I can kind of see what they are driving at.

Like you (I think), I’m not so sure this issue should be linked with Shoah-guilt. However, the “work drinks on a Friday evening” could easily be an issue on its own for Galus Australis.

This is an issue that presents itself only to a certain type of ‘traditional’ (but not legitimately shomer shabbos) Jewish family.

The third generation children work in the city, and would
a) like to attend drinks with the firm rather than go home for Shabbos

b) prefer to go home for shabbos, but feel under pressure to go for drinks, in order to seem sociable, a loyal employee, or whatever.

Just to look at (b)
What we have is a clash of cultures in the antipodes. In the Anglo-Celtic Australian culture (and many other cultures for that matter), there is a tremendous pressure to participate in certain drinking rituals. The Aussie culture almost looks on people suspiciously who do not partake in group drinking. It can actually take considerable will power to resist this social pressure.

For Jews who are shomer shabbos (halachically), they have more clearly defined boundaries, so the decision in a way may be less difficult.

However, for Jews whose shabbos observance is merely ‘traditional’ (rather than halachic), then there are less clearly defined boundaries, and the competing pressures can force them to make a difficult decision.

(Ok, I’m on some pain killers after an operation, so my comment may not have made much sense…it feels a bit incoherent even to me…apologies to all).