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Tzedek Responds to COSA, Lambasts Community Leaders, Accuses R’Brander of Cover Up

August 7, 2013 – 8:43 am53 Comments

From the editor:

tzedek brander2Child abuse advocacy group Tzedek has responded angrily to the Council of Orthodox Synagogues of Australia (COSA) President, Romy Leibler’s, statement in defence of Rabbi Brander. In doing so, community leaders have come under attack. Below is teh latest media release issued by Manny Waks of Tzedek.


“Tzedek has issued the following statement in response to the statement that was issued by the Council of Orthodox Synagogues of Victoria (COSV) President Romy Leibler (5 August 2013):

In issuing our statement criticising the Melbourne invitation that was extended to Rabbi Kenneth Brander (3 August 2013), Tzedek undertook a significant process of research and consultation. In fact, we relied upon a wide network of US-based experienced and knowledgeable people in this area, most of whom are on our esteemed Board of Advisors. Our initial statement was based on widely reported facts:

  1. To date Rabbi Brander’s employer, Yeshiva University, has not properly addressed its own child sexual abuse scandal.
  2. Rabbi Brander has been accused of hushing up serious sexual abuse allegations in his previous employment.

Moreover, our extensive and highly reputable network has access to additional evidence to substantiate some of the reported allegations.

Tzedek undertakes rigorous research, conducts due diligence and consults widely before issuing statements of potential consequences. In this case we are proud to emphasise that this high standard was met. Tzedek fully stands by its initial statement.

We find the criticism emanating from the COSV to be somewhat disingenuous. It is ironic that this reputable organisation has accused Tzedek of not undertaking a rigorous level of research – had the COSV undertaken their own research, they probably would not have appointed accused serial paedophile David Cyprys as a member of the COSV over a period of a number of years starting in 2006. It should be noted that current COSV President, Romy Leibler, in fact sat on the same Board as Mr Cyprys for a number of years. Mr Cyprys only recently stepped down from his Board position. Mr Cyprys is currently facing 40 charges (including five of rape) allegedly perpetrated against 12 victims and is due to stand on trial next week (12 August).

Another public critic, publisher of the ultra-Orthodox Pitputim blog Isaac Balbin, has made similar accusations towards Tzedek. Clearly Dr Balbin does not hold himself to the same standard to which he holds others – had he undertaken his own rigorous level of research, he probably would not have served on the Elwood Synagogue Board of Management together with Mr Cyprys.

Tzedek once again emphasises that it fully stands behind its initial statement. We question the motivation behind the misguided criticisms of Tzedek and Manny Waks by some within the Orthodox community.

Tzedek acknowledges and values the great work of the COSV but is still dismayed and disappointed at its decision to host Rabbi Kenneth Brander. The Jewish community is blessed with leading experts in many fields whose reputations are indisputable. The COSV should have invited a more appropriate speaker.”

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  • I completely agree with Manny/Tzedek’s take on Brander and posted on my blog, frum follies about this.


    I also challenged Rabbi Brander about his handling of abuse in an earlier post, http://frumfollies.wordpress.com/2013/07/15/an-open-note-to-rabbi-kenneth-brander-about-richard-andron/

  • Unfortunately, this is descending into another farce. Both Tzedek and COSV claim to have done detailed investigations into the allegations (and they are just that) against Rabbi Brander. Should you believe one over the other?

    Are COSV part of the ever-growing conspiracy of silence and cover-ups that includes an ever growing list of people who are all labelled as ‘ultra-Orthodox’ and all connected in some way or another? How about the 10+ local orgs who have relied on their investigation and will also host Rabbi Brander? Surely they are now part of the conspiracy as well?!

    In any event, does Rabbi Brander have anything important to say to the community? Based on the turn-out yesterday at the JBD event, which was nearly double what we expected, I’d have to say a resounding “yes”! And a big thank you for the free publicity from Brander’s detractors.

    Here is my take on this http://jewsdownunder.wordpress.com/2013/08/06/we-need-real-justice-not-rumour/

  • http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2013/08/known-pedophile-was-hired-by-orthodox-synagogue-group-victims-advocates-say-345.html

    What Tzedek fails to clearly state is that Chabad pedophile David Cyprys had already in effect pleaded guilty to abuse charges once before COSV hired him. That information was known to leaders in the Chabad and Orthodox community, but COSV hired Cyprys as director anyway.

  • Bill Gross says:

    jewishwhistleblower says “that information was known to leaders in the Chabad and Orthodox community, but COSV hired Cyprys as director anyway.”

    Please share with us your source which confirms the COSV knew about it.

    You say Chabad and the Orthodox community knew. How do you know they knew? Very broad catch-all statement. Captures every leader in the orthodox community. What constitutes “leaders”?

    Reliable and authoritative source/s please?

    Most interesting!

  • Factsfirst says:

    Whilst I believe Tzedek are doing a great service by bringing covered up child abuse cases into the open, I start to worry as to their tone and response to the COSV letter. Most notably, whilst they claim to have accusations against Rabbi Brander (covering up child abuse allegations/cases), I don’t see evidence or concrete facts in their response – it sounds convincing but where are the facts???
    Also,whilst I do advocate what Tzedek are doing and stand for, it should not be there mission to be so self righteous in their approach – this inflates the ego..its a fine line

  • Reallity Check says:

    David, no one is anti orthodoxe, but many who are anti child sex abuse and anti covering up such crimes. Doesn’t our Bible talk about cities of refuge for those accused of a terrible crime. The Shul at Bocco Rouge where Rabbi Brander was the rabbi appears to have been one such city. s far as I am concerned the COSV has lost all credibility since they did not research the allegations properly. The New York Forward would not make such false allegations.

  • vvanderer says:

    Waks will do anything to keep the flames alive. Best not to feed him

  • Reallity Check says:

    Yes Vvanderer, Manny Wak will keep the flames alive, to bring to justice those who committed these crimes against innocent children and those who protect these despicable individuals. More strength to you Manny.

  • Miriam Weinstein says:

    Editor: This is a content free, personal attack against Manny and his father. It is a violation of our comments policy. Further violations will result in suspension.

  • vvanderer and Miriam Weinstein,

    If patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels, ad hominem attacks are the last refuge of cover-up scoundrels.

    Manny’s case is clear and on the record. Read the reports in the Forward about Brander. YU has a scholarship honoring a man who they fired for sodomizing a HS boy. Brander is VP of YU with responsibility for student life, and Brander did know about Richard Andron’s history of abuse and yet kept him in a role in Boca Raton working with youth. The best proof that they knew it stank was that Boca Raton Synagogue forced Andron out within one day of the news reports. Yet YU and Brander knew about the Forward’s reports beforehand because as a professional news outlet they asked YU for comment beforehand. Brander is not fit to talk about the ethics of tainted money unless it is to deliver a confession and apology.

    Tzedek did what it is supposed to do, it expressed dismay about the sponsorship of an event involving Brander, just as they express dismay about any other behavior protective of pedophiles and praise groups and individuals who do the right thing whether they are orthodox, ultra orthodox, or liberal/Reform Jews. It is absurd to claim this is an attack on ultra orthodox Jews. Responsible ultra orthodox Jews like other decent religious people deplore sex abuse and purge known offenders from their ranks. COSV’s retention of Cyprys as staff is the real scandal. Have you guys no shame?

    Shame on both of you for prostituting the principles of Judaism which cannot abide either such disgusting sexually abusive acts or leaders who favor perverts over injured children.

    COSV, a group that claims to be orthodox is flirting with heresy by their standards. They are lying publicly as if the G-d they say is all-knowing does not know about their cover-ups. They are engaging in agit-prop nonsense to deflect attention. They are slandering the Waks family, whose only crime is breaking the norm of silence. They are not even crediting the courage and integrity of the Waks family.

    G-d have mercy on your children so they are never harmed by the very offenders you protect.

  • Frustrated Apykoros says:

    I trust the COSV realises that if it is proved wrong, all judgements of our rabbonim will be held to questions.
    Whilst I have no knowledge of the facts, whilst there are doubts it is unwise to give the Yank a platform. A zero tolerance policy would have no ongoing credibility should the allegations stand even in a small way.
    That the rabbi in question has chosen not to answer his accusers is somewhat of a worry. Given recent history re harbouring of offenders, it is the rabbonim who need to show credibility. I would have thought that if the claims were incorrect, an injunction would be enough to settle the matter.

  • Embi says:

    Bill Gross – in 1992 David Cyprus pleaded guilty to indecent assault.

  • >Most notably, whilst they claim to have accusations against Rabbi
    >Brander (covering up child abuse allegations/cases), I don’t see
    >evidence or concrete facts in their response – it sounds convincing
    >but where are the facts???

    Boca Raton Synagogue Demands Answers on Accused Y.U. Pedophile Richard Andron
    What Did Rabbis Know and When Did They Know It?
    Scandal Shul? Some congregants at the Boca Raton Synagogue are asking whether current or former rabbis knew of the allegations that followed accused pedophile Richard Andron to their community.
    By Paul Berger
    Published July 18, 2013

    One man who said that he was molested by Andron for three years told the Forward that he called Brander during the early 1990s.

    “I told [Brander], he’s definitely a pedophile,” the man said, referring to Andron. “[Brander said] he would look into it, and he never called me back.”

    Another man said he tried to warn Brander about Andron a little more than a decade ago.

    The man said he tried to call Brander “four or five times,” but Brander did not respond. So the man said he “had to leave a very uncomfortable message” with someone in the Boca Raton Synagogue office. Later, a “third party” from the synagogue contacted the man to say that the allegations against Andron were “rumors” and that “in any case, it’s behind him,” the man said.

    Yeshiva University promoted Brander to vice president for university and community life at the end of June. He did not respond to several requests for comment.

  • Bill Gross says:

    I was aware, however that became public only after the latest charge against Cyprus and that’s when I became aware as more than likely you and the rest of the community did as well.

    My question related to (a) when did the COSV become aware? After all there was no recorded conviction, nor did the press report anything at the time, and (b) at what stage did Dr Balbin seek to have him removed? It would appear he did so as soon as he became aware.

    Would you like me to rephrase my question in simpler English or rather, draw you a picture?

    Your waffle did not address any of my queries.

    Was that deliberate or do I have to whistle-Dixie?

    Here are my queries one last time.

    jewishwhistleblower says “that information was known to leaders in the Chabad and Orthodox community, but COSV hired Cyprys as director anyway.”

    Please share with us your source which confirms the COSV knew about it.

    You say Chabad and the Orthodox community knew. How do you know they knew? Very broad catch-all statement. Captures every leader in the orthodox community. What constitutes “leaders”?

    Reliable and authoritative source/s please?

    Most interesting!

  • Bill, I think you need to read what I wrote again carefully.

    Firstly, I quoted and cited another blogger, Failed Messiah.

    Secondly, Failed Messiah’s assertion is confirmed in documentation and press reports. Please read same carefully before you “draw a picture” or assert falsely that I have made any claim.

    1) http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2012/08/jewish-community-leader-tied-to-pedophile-abruptly-resigns-678.html

    2) http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/synagogue-asks-alleged-child-molester-to-stand-down-20110719-1hne0.html

    3) http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/yeshiva-turned-blind-eye-to-sex-abuse-claims/story-e6frg6nf-1226130935332

  • Emanuel Newgant says:

    Good on you moderator for removing “content free, personal” attacks against the Waks family. It’s blackly amusing, perhaps even heartening, that with all the wealth of info out there now about pedophilia and its coverup in Yeshivah Centre, other places in Melbourne and Australia, USA, France, UK, Israel and the whole Jewish world, in the press and on the blogs, the best they can come up with is ad hominem vitriol.

  • Bill Gross says:

    The earliest article is from Topfield July 20 2011. Quoting her article “The Elwood Talmud Torah Congregation, an Orthodox synagogue, has asked Mr Cyprys to stand down from his role as a committee member on the board of management.”
    Manny Wax went public 12 days earlier. Was E.T.T. or the COSV aware of the Cyprys 1992 episode? Were you? Were your catch-all orthodox leaders aware? 1992 events only emerged post July 8, 2011. I believe it emerged even post the Topfield story. It certainly appears prima facie that Dr Balbin and Elwood Talmud Torah acted swiftly & appropriately even before they or the community at large were aware of the 1992 event.

    That not quick enough for you and the scurrilous Failed Messiah blog you refer to adnauseum? All scuttle buck with a clear agenda to demonize orthodoxy in “one hat fits all” comments.

    Again, show us clearly your source that the COSV and the (catch-all) Orthodox leaders were aware before any of the above dates.

    If I were you, I wouldn’t brag about quoting Failed Messiah. That rag just happens to be a Jewish version of Der Stuermer.

  • Emanuel Newgant says:

    Very interesting Bill. Yeshivah Centre leadership and much of the kehila (of which Balbin is a part) knew about DC for many, many years (see Glick’s testimony in court, good enough source?). Balbin in particular knew about him in detail, as did the Rabbi of Elwood, Mottel Gutnick, well before the newspaper articles. I know of at least 1 person who warned them both about him, and how he would explode in their faces. So please, cut the cover-up, apologist crap.

  • Bill please take some time to read. You either don’t know much about the case you are discussing or are just trying to spin. Here are a few lines from one of the articles I previously asked you to read carefully. Please try reading the materials again:


    In September 1992, Mr Cyprys pleaded guilty to a charge of indecent assault against a former teenage student at the school and was released on a good behaviour bond. Police interviewed a senior administrator at the college at the time this complaint was made.

    “They were well aware of these matters,” Constable Metcher said of school authorities. “They have failed to act in any way to protect children from matters that have been swept under the carpet.”

    Pressed by Mr Cyprys’s lawyer, Alex Lewenberg, to identify the accused’s supporters, the detective said: “They’re from the Yeshivah community.”

  • Bill Gross says:

    When did Dr Balbin & the COSV become aware and when did Orthodox leaders become aware? You keep on evading that simple question.

    You now introduce an interesting component.

    Pressed by Mr Cyprys’s lawyer, Alex Lewenberg, to identify the accused’s supporters, the detective said: “They’re from the Yeshivah community.”

    Didn’t Cyprus have a clean police check How did he get one bearing in mind the police would have been aware of his record. Perhaps they too should be held accountable? Perhaps someone should ask Const. Metcher if the boys in blue messed up by issuing a clearance when they of all people had the means to check the history of the applicant. Supporters? How would you define supporters? People who were unaware of his record who may have used his services as a locksmith? How many people within the school system knew? Your guess is as good as mine. How many congregants knew? Your guess is as good as mine. Manny’s dad claims he didn’t know. Why not? He was part of the community. If he didn’t know why would the rest of the community have been expected to know? (no doubt Newgant can answer that question, I’m told he has the uncanny ability to read the Waks’ thought processes 24/7). Yet you tarnish everyone. Why? Because you have a bias against Orthodox Jews?
    Now answer my first point. I’m annoyed that you tarnish the COSV and Dr Balbin for no reason other than their orthodox affiliations.

  • Emanuel Newgant says:

    JWB: As you intimate above, “Gross” really does have a reading comprehension problem. As I comment above “Balbin in particular knew about him in detail, as did the Rabbi of Elwood, Mottel Gutnick, well before the newspaper articles.” Not just before, but many years before. Rabbi Gutnick is currently the Vice President of the RCV. He is also head of the Melbourne Beth Din, a body associated with COSV, as stated on the COSV web-site “the RCV assumes responsibility for Halachic aspects, the COSV takes responsibility for the administering and funding of the Melbourne Beth Din”. It is inconceivable that, or “unfathomable” (the description by the Magistrate of Glick’s court testimony) if, Gutnick did not make the COSV and the RCV aware of what he knew.
    Stop lying Gross.

  • Bill Gross says:

    You’re so aggressive Newgant. Someone would think you’re the focus of attention in these dialogues. Do you have any sinister secrets you’d love to share with us? Please by all means get it off your chest. You’re so hung up about anyone not sharing your views in respect of the community being fed up with the antics of Australia’s largest family, one might think that you are actually part of it. Now that couldn’t possibly be, could it? Toddle off as your mentor would say, be a good boy. Chill out, and please desist with the name calling otherwise you may find no one will bother taking you even semi-seriously. I’m off to the pub for a good cold beer. You’re more than welcome to join me. I’ll be at the Espi latest 7:30 Just ask for “The Bill”.

  • Galus Australis says:

    Gentlemen, please refrain from any more name calling or personal remarks. Such comments will be deleted and repeat violations will result in account suspensions. Thank you.

  • >Yet you tarnish everyone. Why? Because you have a bias against
    >Orthodox Jews?

    I am an Orthodox Jew. I have no such bias.

    You, not I, tarnish those that you recklessly defend in the face of damning public news articles and court records. You do no one a service by misstating what I have written here and attacking my personal motives.

    As to the rest, you have been given references to news articles and documents and others have commented with more direct information.
    You are welcome to contact your community leadership and direct the appropriate inquiries to those leaders past and present directly. Feel free to post copies of your inquiries and responses here. I suspect that you won’t. The public record stands and the Failed Messiah blog is factually accurate when it stated:


    What Tzedek fails to clearly state is that Chabad pedophile David Cyprys had already in effect pleaded guilty to abuse charges once before COSV hired him. That information was known to leaders in the Chabad and Orthodox community, but COSV hired Cyprys as director anyway.

  • Reallity Check says:

    The advertisement for a workshop with R’Brander that I just saw has one of the topics about enticing young people to go to Shul. I hope the issue of children being protected from pedophiles by the Shul was addressed.

  • Here you go Bill.

    See: http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2013/08/when-a-council-of-orthodox-synagogues-hires-a-known-sex-offender-678.html

    When A Council Of Orthodox Synagogues Hires A Known Sex Offender

    David Cyprys, AKA Shmuel Dovid Cyprys, AKA David Cyprys is a pedophile whose first known brush with the law happened in 1992. Chabad kept him as an employee with full access to children, even though it knew Cyprys had molested a child. Cyprys went to allegedly molest and rape at least 11 more children at or near Chabad’s Yeshivah Centre. Complaints were made to Chabad leaders, including the head of Chabad in Australia, Rabbi Yitzchok Dovid Groner. Chabad did not remove Cyprys. And then Cyprys got a new job – as the director of the Council of Orthodox Synagogues of Victoria (i.e., Melbourne). Here is proof.

    1) http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b71f69e2019104a94939970c-400wi



  • Reallity Check says:

    Bill and David, enough with the anti-orthodox rubbish. It’s anti-child abuse and cover ups thats important.

  • Emanuel Newgant says:

    Yes RC. David Werdiger’s comments are particularly strange coming from someone with intimate knowledge of 2 separate CSA offenders, one of whom is still roaming free.

  • issac brott says:

    Chabad is a gigantic organisation …yet whistleblower so confidently and irresponsibly lifts the brush and tars the lot.The one thing we don’t know is that we know ,to date ,very little!Rabbi Groner is an easy target for obvious reasons….he is dead.He cant answer,rebut or point the finger as the courageous whistleblower knows and Glick is to much of a gentleman and to humble to go about pointing the finger which is something whistleblower doesn’t know or/and doesn’t care.Rabbi Groner and Rabbi Glick are men of the cloth who never had the final word at Yeshivah….the executive did and does.Who were the executive at the time?Who were the people on the executive and committee who were responsible for the secular issues?The advisors who mann the tiller.Who engineered the payoff?Who effected the payoff?What was the conditions of the payoff?Was any documen ts involved?Was it cash or cheque?Where did the money come from?How was it entered in the books of account?Considering the thunderous accusatory silence methinks that some of these functionaries and navigators are still aboard and certainly also not deceased.Who is protecting them?Who are the cowards who should have known better and who are responsible not only of perverting the course of justice and allowing good mens names to be besmirched but possibly responsible for the perpetrators continuing their demented behaviour….come out from under your rocks…no…they will have to be dragged from under the rocks…

  • Emanuel Newgant says:

    Can agree with most of that issac. Are you talking about Hopping Harry, Teflon Don, Shy Shloimie, Mad Michael? Yeah, there’s a lot to come out.

  • Emanuel, you’re skating very close to the line.

    Please do not indulge in any further name calling or innuendo. If you feel you have criticisms to make that are not defamatory, that’s fine.

    Anything like the above comment, however, will be deleted from here on in and will be considered a violation of commenting policy. Further infractions will result in suspension of your account.

    Finally, please ensure that you only use the one identity and do not post under multiple pseudonyms.

  • TheSadducee says:

    Emanuel Newgant

    I’m curious to know what you mean by “intimate relationship” concerning Werdiger and the people you are referring to?

    That is a pretty strong claim to make to be honest. You must know Werdiger or the people themselves quite well to make such a claim.

  • jewishwhistleblower says:

    I can’t answer or speak for Newgant. But it is clear that several of the Australian bloggers that have recently been critical of Tzedek and the Waks family have “intimate knowledge of 2 separate CSA offenders, one of whom is still roaming free”. This is simply part of the public record.




    You can try google for more.

  • TheSadducee says:


    Thanks for the reply but I’m actually addressing the claim that Werdiger had intimate knowledge of these people.

    There may be other people but Newgant specifically referred to Werdiger above.

    To make such a claim indicates that the person either knows Werdiger well, knows the people referred to well, is Werdiger or one of the people referred to. Which of these is Newgant?

    Also – the links don’t back up Newgant’s claim either but do suggest that people knew about issues but doesn’t seem to identify anyone.

  • issac brott says:

    I don’t know who the individuals are that Newgant are referring to ….but what is obvious is that whether they participated or /and in initiated in the coverup or just went along with it they are slimy cockroaches as it was the secular committee that sanctioned the actions taken to deport Kramer and the ‘embarrassment’.It was the secular committee that bore the responsibility of according with the laws of the land as it was they who had most proximity to the contemporary obligation s of our times….it was they who dealt with the secular considerations of the day to day operation of the school….it was they who authorised or wrote the cheques ,who sourced the funds to buy of Kramer etc….Rabbis’ Groner and Glick were not involved in that aspect of administering the yeshivah.Whilst they cower underneath their locks [or do they share one rock ?] the good names of Groner and Glick are desecrated.If anyone knows who these people are then contact the OPP [office of public prosecution] and ask them when will be charged with perverting the course of justice?Not only are our religious icons being bought into disrepute by these morally and ethically diminutive trolls but give a thought to the perpetrators victims who suffered and will continue to suffer horrendously because this cabal who should have known better thought that a clandestine slimy little conspiraracy was the correct course…write to Yeshivah and demand the names of the executive of the time,the minutes of the relevant meetings,who signed the cheques?Who provided the blood money?What was said by whom?Now is the time for hands and souls to be washed clean…surerly among so many who know there is a few brave souls who will step forward….or is there?

  • Emanuel Newgant says:

    Galus Australis. I feel you are being a lot tougher on me regarding “skating very close to the line” than on others. Manny and his father are villified regularly without any facts at all, and usually allowed to get away with it.

    My criticisms via strange names were not intended to be defamatory, just factual. JWB, not from Oz, should be aware that ALL senior members of the current YC board and administration, whether or not they participated in the cover-up then, have been aware of the facts right from then. It always blackly amuses me that we are even having this discussion about who knew what and when.

    Also, I “do not post under multiple pseudonyms”.

    Isaac, when I said above “Can agree with most of that”, you must stop erroneously trying to isolate or insulate the 2 Gs: G #1 has been called a liar by a Magistrate; G #2 was dumped on by the General Manager, Mrs NB, G #1’s sister, who said he was running the show then when the “troubles” happened. Sorry for using initials, but I don’t wish to offend Galus’s sensitivities.

    Saducee, my comments about David Werdiger only mean that he knows of at least 2 victims from at least 2 perps, not alleged, but definite. The same can be said of most of the leadership, and has been true for more than 20 years.

    Bottom line: big-time coverup of big-time CSA, well understood by the police and journalists involved, and it hasn’t nearly all hit the fan yet. Watch this space.

  • issac brott says:

    Emanuel…are you telling us all that the people who ‘ran’Yeshivah when these abominations occurred and then who demonstrably perpetuated the horror by sending Kramer [and who else?]to another part of the world where more jewish children could be preayed on are still on the executive? It couldnt be…?

  • TheSadducee says:

    Emanuel Newgant

    I’m pleased but also a little dismayed to see you backpeddle from your earlier claim about Werdiger.

    Now you are dropping your claim that he had “intimate knowledge” (quite a specific claim) to “he knows of at least 2 victims” (a very general claim that could be suggested of mostly anyone in the community).

    Personally I’m not sure what you are trying to achieve and/or what your involvement/intentions are? Why not come clean and advise what your beef is in the fight? Clearly you are concerned about the reputations of the Waks’ – you admit as much. But why?

    I honestly see your comments as unnecessarily provocative and divisive – how do you think slurring someone’s name like that is going to assist in a positive outcome for the community?

    It is conduct like this which brings down the community from within and lowers the character of the individuals involved – insinuations, gossip, a lack of charity – your critics may indulge in this, but don’t you aspire for better for yourself?

  • Emanuel Newgant says:

    IB: No, it couldn’t be, could it, it would be highly immoral; it’s a moral disgrace, and a maybe it’s even illegal under company law (there are incorporated bodies involved).

    TS: No backpeddle. I just wanted to clarify that I was not accusing him of being a perp, which some misconstrued. But intimate knowledge, yes. That was my purpose in bringing it up, as I stated above: DW’s attacks on certain people and organisations are strange when one takes into account what he knows, but do remember that his brother Shlomie is on the Committee of Management of YC. I am sure Isaac can find out if SW was on the COM at the time of Kramer’s whisking away. That YC paid for that bit of illegality was already confirmed in the Australian newspaper 2 years ago by Hersch Cooper, then chairman of the Board. So do you now understand why I brought his name up? I don’t like hypocrisy.

  • TheSadducee says:

    Emanuel Newgant

    I think it odd that you assume that his brother would automatically confer knowledge of COM matters to him? This presumes a knowledge that only he or his brother would have – surely you see the risk in making these types of assumptions?

    I would be reluctant to make strong claims (esp. hypocrisy) of someone else’s knowledge based purely on their familial relationships…do you know everything that your brothers and sisters get up to?

    And do you consider his observations as genuine attacks or are you characterising them that way because you don’t agree with them?

  • Emanuel Newgant says:

    TS: Your points are well taken, but have real answers.
    1. No, I assumed nothing. The COM info I was referring to is and was known by many, many people in YC, at the time and now. The hypocrisy was only added to by his familial relationship, and by particular knowledge DW has.
    2. I (often) “consider his “observations” as genuine attacks”.

    Galus: I am pleased to see you have become a little more relaxed with my comments. Did you recheck and find that I “do not post under multiple pseudonyms”? I also should point out: forget about my content which bothered you: a certain arrogant, dictatorial blogger will not even allow me to publish under this pseudonym, he warned me that it was unduly provocative or some such nonsense, but amusingly allowed me to comment as “EN”.

  • issac brott says:

    There seems to be an abundance of innuendo and a paucity of honesty and frankness.What is all the fear about?Who are you fearful of?Are there intimidators or are the fears borne of chronic cowardice?Truth is objective and if it’s not its libel…and if false allegation is borne of nefarious odious fabrication then let the perpetrator suffer the consequences.Who were the executive at the time?Who on the executive knew what was going on at the school?Who arranged the ‘transfer’ of Kramer?Who drew the cheque?What was Kramer given and by whom?Was it money for a fare or resettlement costs also?Where did the cash come from?Who contacted the authorities in Israel to ensure that the perpetrator wasn’t going to prey on another bunch of Jewish kids?Who advised the religious authorities at the school that they had a legal and moral and ethical obligation…a sacred obligation to protect all children…and what needed to be done to discharge that obligation….did their actions or more to the point their insidious wretched non actions merit even a consideration of the children of our community and other communities?It seems that a number of contributors know the answers….let the rest of us in on the dirty little secrets !It may come as a shock but not everyone is satisfied with the loading of the good name of a dead man and a good man who is to much of a gentleman to point a finger with the iniquities of others…is there three righteous men among you….two….one?

  • Emanuel Newgant says:

    IB, if you are yourself, or know, a lawyer who is interested in putting an end to all this nonsense, get him involved in searching back over company law type illegalities that have occurred over the years: what responsibilities did directors have, school principals, based on what they did, and are still doing, are they fit to be in the positions they still occupy etc.

  • wasthere says:

    issac brott it may be a shock to you but YES Yeshivah is basically run by the same people today as it was 20 years ago….The ‘executive’ has not changed….

  • issac brott says:

    Thanks ‘wasthere’…so it seems that the slime exhibiting the moral and ethical fortitude of hyenas have stood by all these years while the memory of Harav [of blessed memory]Groner and Reb Glick were loaded with what was in fact their odious burden and indeed hid like cowards in the shadows whilst Chabad itself was assailed.They could have shouldered the responsibility that was indeed theirs and resign and assign themselves to the hell they deserve but instead the faceless men stood silently in the shadows in the twilight of iniquity.Rashi stated that one day men [and women?]of mediocrity will one day walk this earth with their heads held high.It wasn’t enough that this monstrosity took place at our Yeshivah,in our community but it is compounded now that we know it is ongoing as the people during whose watch it took place still hold their claws around the throat of our [not theirs,it will never be theirs ]Yeshivah.All that they had to do was resign,drop to their knees and apologise and fade into the obscurity they so eminently deserve….but in stead they compounded and perpetuated the ‘monstrosity’…it is likely that what took place with the first perpetrator would not have occurred,been repeated ,with the second perpetrator if just one had done what decency and good character and indeed the law of the land and the law of our people required of them….I don’t think that all the subsequent victims can ever forgive them,nor can the rest of the kehilla forgive them and I don’t forgive them for jeopardising my children….they will burn in hell.If there is anyone out there who has specific information of who knew what and who paid what to whom take it to the OPP….CALL THE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT….the reigns of power must be prised out of the hands of these decrepit and additionally historically demonstrated moral pygmys.

  • Emanuel Newgant says:

    Omein IB, except that (I know it’s hard for you to face) the 2 G’s were complicit or guiding the whole immorality.

  • wasthere says:

    I think issac brott you need to understand more about how Yeshivah was run while Groner was at the helm…
    His was was the only way….Simply put,Groner ran the place from start to finish….
    I don’t place the bulk of the blame for wrongdoing 20+ years ago at the feet of the committee or executive….They would have been following orders from Groner….

    What I and I’m sure others want to see is a statement from the executive which in a nutshell says they are sorry for the past and that from this day on any kid who raises the issue of abuse will be taken seriously and the police will be called as this is what the law requires….

    At the end of the day none of us can change the past but what we all want to see is a change for the better for the future…
    I would not mind at all if they blamed Groner for the past….

  • Emanuel Newgant says:

    I’m with wasthere, on the proviso that any statement from the executive is sincere, not the crap they have vomited up till now.

  • wasthere says:

    Emanuel I doubt will see this any time soon…..Not because the executive don’t want to but because they can’t….

    The reality is that Groners replacement runs yeshivah in the same way that Groner did….

    So at the end of the day nothing has changed one bit and it’s fair to assume that if the situation arose again like it did 20 years ago the only decision they would make is as to who buys the ticket to send the person away…

    It’s not till criminal charges are laid for failure to report that we may see some change…

    Worse yet is that the exact same situation exists in Sydney Yeshivah..

    I know that on a personal level I could not sleep at night if my kids attended Yeshiva school…

  • issac brott says:

    Its remarkable….the Nuremberg defence is being used!To all those who so genuinely and forgivingly ‘explain’ what I need to understand please sit down in a quite room and understand what you are saying…what you are forgiving,what you are explaining away,what you are becoming complicit with.You have become victims of the committee/executive who knew better but did not assert themselves as they were obliged to ….we are not talking about martyrdom here…even if it is excepted that the two G’S held total power,were invulnerable,were all powerful [and I don’t accept that] did one individual step forward to challenge the omnipotent dictators.We are not talking about cupcakes here…this is our children,our principles and our moral obligations.Were the individuals in positions of power able and competent ,conversant with the laws of the land as well as the sanctity of their responsibilities and the dictates of our moral codes?The answer is YES…they were the trustees of our children and everything else AND they knew better.Purge the power structure and administration of the school now ….we have a wonderful new and dedicated headmaster but until the iniquitous faceless men are purged and the slate sanitised the putrid odour of the past will persist.

  • issac brott says:

    Who is the committee now and then?Name them….why the fear?Surely there is a report that names them?Who is the person who ‘runs Yeshivah’ now that ‘wasthere’ is referring to?There is no person who is omnipotent gumption at Yeshivah nor was t6here ever such a person….but there is an abundance of people who don t have the gumption to step forward and be heard,to challenge where challenges are justified and speak up when required.Since when do Jews shiver in fear in the presence of the powerful?They never have….these are merely the diminutive excuses of diminuive cowardly people.If the Yeshivah was a hoard of bovine ignoramus’ [they certainly are not!]then one could understand the assertion of domination and innuendo of bullying and lend some credit to these accusations….but in reality they are excuses propogated , advanced and planted by the benign,the cowardly and the guilty….excuses by those who become aware of the crimes,by default were complicit and on whose watch ,as a consequence, the crimes were repeated.ITS’ CLASSICAL NUREMBERG DEFENCE ADVANCED BY THOSE WHO FINALLY STILL REFUSE TO TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY THEY INDEED ASSUMED WHEN THEY SOUGHT OUT AND TOOK THEIR SEATS OF AUTHORITY AND …RESPONSIBILITY!

  • Isaac, please do not post a comment directly after having posted one before. Please wait for another person to comment before commenting again. Thanks.

  • issac brott says:

    Sorry,I am getting on in years…I forgot to say all that I wanted to say…Regards Issac

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